Landover's C64/128 8k programming competition

[Lance Lyon]

The rules :

* Must run on an unexpanded C64 or C128 in C64 mode or on any C64 emulator
* Must be in Basic (although use of data statements to create an ML program
is OK)
* Submissions may be in D64, D71 or D81 format
* Must NOT be larger than 8192 bytes (8k)
* May NOT be a text adventure

Submit your program to ***@landover.no-ip.com - the programs will be made
available for people to download & vote on. Submissions begin on 11/08/04 &
are to be finalised by 12:00 AEST on 11/11/04 (for US people, that's
08/11/04 - 11/11/04).

After this time the voting will commence for a period of 1 month ending on
11/12/04 12:00 AEST after which time the winner will be announced.


View current submissions here :

http://landover.no-ip.com/contest.htm to view it.

Contest rules (& info) at
http://landover.no-ip.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=13


cheers,

Lance

[Dunny]

Post by Lance Lyon
* Must run on an unexpanded C64 or C128 in C64 mode or on any C64 emulator
* Submissions may be in D64, D71 or D81 format

Cool! By happy chance I've just written a BASIC game, but I've rather foolishly
saved it in .z80 format. Do you have a converter for z80 files -> D64/D71/D81
format? It'll need to run in 128k +2 mode, btw, as it uses the AY and Silicon
Disk.

D.

[Raymond Martineau]

Post by Dunny

Post by Lance Lyon
* Must run on an unexpanded C64 or C128 in C64 mode or on any C64 emulator
* Submissions may be in D64, D71 or D81 format

Cool! By happy chance I've just written a BASIC game, but I've rather foolishly
saved it in .z80 format. Do you have a converter for z80 files -> D64/D71/D81
format? It'll need to run in 128k +2 mode, btw, as it uses the AY and Silicon
Disk.

IIRC, Z80 and D64 image formats are too incompatable. It has to do with
the differences in how Basic was implemented for the corresponding
platform.

The only way you could get it working is if you only use a very simple
program (e.g. text only, no graphics.) Even then, I'm not aware of any
automated converters.

[Dunny]

Post by Raymond Martineau

Post by Dunny

Post by Lance Lyon
* Must run on an unexpanded C64 or C128 in C64 mode or on any C64 emulator
* Submissions may be in D64, D71 or D81 format

Cool! By happy chance I've just written a BASIC game, but I've
rather foolishly saved it in .z80 format. Do you have a converter
for z80 files -> D64/D71/D81 format? It'll need to run in 128k +2
mode, btw, as it uses the AY and Silicon Disk.

IIRC, Z80 and D64 image formats are too incompatable. It has to do with
the differences in how Basic was implemented for the corresponding
platform.
The only way you could get it working is if you only use a very simple
program (e.g. text only, no graphics.) Even then, I'm not aware of
any automated converters.

Ah. Thanks for that - Given that the BASIC on the spectrum can't be interpreted
by any other 8bit micro, and that I use the Spectrum 128k/Plus 2's AY Chip PLAY
command and the Silicon RAMDISK unique to that computer, could you suggest any
way that I can get my SINCLAIR BASIC program into one of those formats?
Obviously, I'd like to retain full functionality without resorting to machine
code :-)

And a .z80 file is a dump of Spectrum memory, with RLE encoding. The BASIC is
only contained therein as an after-effect of the memory dump process, and is
held in-memory in tokenised form. Hope that helps.

D.

[Raymond Martineau]

Post by Dunny
Ah. Thanks for that - Given that the BASIC on the spectrum can't be interpreted
by any other 8bit micro, and that I use the Spectrum 128k/Plus 2's AY Chip PLAY
command and the Silicon RAMDISK unique to that computer, could you suggest any
way that I can get my SINCLAIR BASIC program into one of those formats?

Like to, but I don't know Sinclair Basic variation. :)

Post by Dunny
Obviously, I'd like to retain full functionality without resorting to machine
code :-)
And a .z80 file is a dump of Spectrum memory, with RLE encoding. The BASIC is
only contained therein as an after-effect of the memory dump process, and is
held in-memory in tokenised form. Hope that helps.

From my experience with Basic, there is a "list" command that writes the
content of the program to the console/screen. Depending on what is
available, as well as how power of Sinclair Basic, you could try:

1. Sending the output (the program listing) of the to a serial port, and
have another computer read the data off the port...
2. Pause the output at each screenful of information, and running an
equivalent of an OCR (Optical Character Recognition).
3. Manually copying the Basic code (last resort)

It also depends on the complexity of the application as well - if it needs
to do graphics, then you have to rewrite that section from scratch as
graphics routines always vary from platform to playform.

[leeg]

Post by Dunny
Given that the BASIC on the spectrum can't be
interpreted by any other 8bit micro, and that I use the Spectrum 128k/
Plus 2's AY Chip PLAY command and the Silicon RAMDISK unique to that
computer, could you suggest any way that I can get my SINCLAIR BASIC
program into one of those formats? Obviously, I'd like to retain full
functionality without resorting to machine code :-)

Create a program on the C64 that generates noise such that if you feed
the output of the C64 into the input of a Speccy, and type LOAD "" on
the Speccy, it will load the noise from the C64 as a valid Speccy
program. This contains your SINCLAIR BASIC program, you just need to
make sure that the C64 code was under 8k. A great way to create quality
software for the C64.

leeg.

[the.sentinel]

Post by Raymond Martineau

Post by Dunny

Post by Lance Lyon
* Must run on an unexpanded C64 or C128 in C64 mode or on any C64 emulator
* Submissions may be in D64, D71 or D81 format

Cool! By happy chance I've just written a BASIC game, but I've rather foolishly
saved it in .z80 format. Do you have a converter for z80 files -> D64/D71/D81
format? It'll need to run in 128k +2 mode, btw, as it uses the AY and Silicon
Disk.

IIRC, Z80 and D64 image formats are too incompatable. It has to do with
the differences in how Basic was implemented for the corresponding
platform.
The only way you could get it working is if you only use a very simple
program (e.g. text only, no graphics.) Even then, I'm not aware of any
automated converters.

Raymond, i think you missed the sarcasm and point of Dunny's post.

[Raymond Martineau]

Post by the.sentinel

Post by Raymond Martineau
IIRC, Z80 and D64 image formats are too incompatable. It has to do with
the differences in how Basic was implemented for the corresponding
platform.
The only way you could get it working is if you only use a very simple
program (e.g. text only, no graphics.) Even then, I'm not aware of any
automated converters.

Raymond, i think you missed the sarcasm and point of Dunny's post.

On the Internet, there is absolutly no way of telling whether or not a
piece of text contains sarcasm. As a result, the author needs to provide
"emoticons" or the equivalent thereof to indicate a form of sarcasm.

[AndyC]

Post by Raymond Martineau
On the Internet, there is absolutly no way of telling whether or not a
piece of text contains sarcasm. As a result, the author needs to provide
"emoticons" or the equivalent thereof to indicate a form of sarcasm.

Absolutely. This is why sarcasm couldn't be written down until the late
1980's, when Dr I P Freely discovered the first smiley in a research lab in
Utah. This confirmed the earlier predecitions of Prof. R U Choking and Dr. I
M Dwunk who predicted the existence of the four "base" smileys in their
seminal paper of 1921. Some historians believe that the Ancient Eygptians
may actually have some knowledge of the standard ":-)" smiley as similar
marking was located in the tomb of Mi Kar Skaput, although others denounce
it as a mere coincidence.

AndyC

[Raymond Martineau]

Post by AndyC

Post by Raymond Martineau
On the Internet, there is absolutly no way of telling whether or not a
piece of text contains sarcasm. As a result, the author needs to provide
"emoticons" or the equivalent thereof to indicate a form of sarcasm.

Absolutely. This is why sarcasm couldn't be written down until the late
1980's, when Dr I P Freely discovered the first smiley in a research lab in
Utah.

I thought Ian Paul discovered it a bit earlier than the late 1980s. But
still, it's probably close enough.

Too bad that he was more remembered for his name rather than his discovery.

[AndyC]

Post by Raymond Martineau

Post by AndyC
Absolutely. This is why sarcasm couldn't be written down until the late
1980's, when Dr I P Freely discovered the first smiley in a research lab in
Utah.

I thought Ian Paul discovered it a bit earlier than the late 1980s. But
still, it's probably close enough.
Too bad that he was more remembered for his name rather than his discovery.

Hey, look, up there. There's a point. No not there, just there. It's just
gone right over your head. Quick, look over there.

Oh, too late. You appear to have missed it completely.

AndyC

[Dunny]

Post by Raymond Martineau

Post by the.sentinel
Raymond, i think you missed the sarcasm and point of Dunny's post.

On the Internet, there is absolutly no way of telling whether or not a
piece of text contains sarcasm. As a result, the author needs to
provide "emoticons" or the equivalent thereof to indicate a form of
sarcasm.

Good christ, have you never written a letter? How the hell did you manage to
write jokes down before "emoticons"? Can you not fathom punctuation to provide
necessary indications of sarcasm? Of course you can. Even a dry sentence with
absolutely no hint of humour can have someone in stitches. Sarcasm is that which
cannot be expressed visually, you have to read it.

I can imagine that your english literature reading must have been extensive, and
your knowledge of the popular authors during the previous two centuries must
know no bounds.

Emoticons indeed - yes, they're useful. No, they are not in any way necessary.

D.

[Darren Salt]

I demand that Dunny may or may not have written...

[snip]

Even a dry sentence with absolutely no hint of humour can have someone in
stitches.

And here's me thinking that you used needle and thread for that...

[AndyC]

Post by Dunny
Cool! By happy chance I've just written a BASIC game, but I've rather foolishly
saved it in .z80 format. Do you have a converter for z80 files -> D64/D71/D81
format? It'll need to run in 128k +2 mode, btw, as it uses the AY and Silicon
Disk.

Dunny you fool, it's easy. Simply right click the file name in Explorer,
select rename and then just change the .z80 to .d64

At least, that's what all our secretaries try... (I'm not bitter, honest!)

AndyC

[David Mueller]

Hi...

Post by Lance Lyon
* Must NOT be larger than 8192 bytes (8k)

Is this just Code or Code+Variables?

David

[Dunny]

Post by David Mueller
Hi...

Post by Lance Lyon
* Must NOT be larger than 8192 bytes (8k)

Is this just Code or Code+Variables?

Good point. My program loads various data blocks from the tape and copies them
to the Spectrum's RAMDisk. Some of it is data that's passed to the AY Chip's
registers.

Is any of that a problem for the competition?

D.

[the.sentinel]

Post by Dunny

Post by David Mueller
Hi...

Post by Lance Lyon
* Must NOT be larger than 8192 bytes (8k)

Is this just Code or Code+Variables?

Good point. My program loads various data blocks from the tape and copies them
to the Spectrum's RAMDisk. Some of it is data that's passed to the AY Chip's
registers.
Is any of that a problem for the competition?
D.

things seem to be going right over some people's heads

:LMAO: !!!!

[Dunny]

Post by the.sentinel

Post by Dunny
Good point. My program loads various data blocks from the tape and
copies them to the Spectrum's RAMDisk. Some of it is data that's
passed to the AY Chip's registers.

things seem to be going right over some people's heads

God, the only guy to get it, and whaddya know, he's a CSSer. Proves that we're
the only ones with a sense of humour (though Mark came close!).

Besides, what I'd *really* like to know is WHAT THE FUCK that tosser was
spamming a SINCLAIR group with an advert for a COMMODORE competition? Surely if
anyone from CSS was interested in commodes, they'd be reading c.s.cbm?

What an arse.

D.

[Lance Lyon]

Post by Dunny
Besides, what I'd *really* like to know is WHAT THE FUCK that tosser was
spamming a SINCLAIR group with an advert for a COMMODORE competition? Surely if
anyone from CSS was interested in commodes, they'd be reading c.s.cbm?

Simple - there are those of us that use *both* machines & at may be of
interest to either group.

Got It ?

cheers,

Lance

[AndyC]

Post by Lance Lyon
Simple - there are those of us that use *both* machines & at may be of
interest to either group.

What you mean those who'd be reading c64 related groups and thus don't need
the annoucement in a purely Sinclar group.

Anyway, it's a well known fact that any thread crossposted to c.s.s. and
c.s.c *must* be entitled "The C64 Was Crap!"

AndyC

[Dunny]

Post by Lance Lyon

Post by Dunny
Besides, what I'd *really* like to know is WHAT THE FUCK that tosser
was spamming a SINCLAIR group with an advert for a COMMODORE
competition? Surely if
anyone from CSS was interested in commodes, they'd be reading
c.s.cbm?

Simple - there are those of us that use *both* machines & at may be of
interest to either group.
Got It ?

Yes, I understand that you crossposted into a sinclair group with information
about a competition that doesn't apply and never could apply to a sinclair
machine unless we're willing dump all the features that makes sinclair BASIC
useful and convert it to run on a commodore. And the argument that "those of us
who use *both* machines" may be interested holds absolutely zero water, as has
been pointed out - PEOPLE INTERESTED IN BOTH WILL SUBSCRIBE TO BOTH GROUPS. I
don't susbcribe to any cbm groups because I am not interested in them. What
makes you think that seeing as I have no cbm groups in my list that I might be
interested in your competition?

What you have done, sir, is spamming.

Got it?

D.

[Lance Lyon]

Post by David Mueller
Hi...

Post by Lance Lyon
* Must NOT be larger than 8192 bytes (8k)

Is this just Code or Code+Variables?
David

Just code.

(methinks maybe a Speccy programming comp may be in order too.....)

cheers,

Lance

[Raymond Martineau]

On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 16:25:16 +1000, "Lance Lyon"

Post by Lance Lyon

Post by David Mueller
Hi...

Post by Lance Lyon
* Must NOT be larger than 8192 bytes (8k)

Is this just Code or Code+Variables?
David

Just code.

Is the code allowed to decompress itself from 8k to 16k, or does the code
segment must remain entirely within an 8K window?

[Dunny]

Post by Lance Lyon
(methinks maybe a Speccy programming comp may be in order too.....)

Please. I'd hate to think we're reading this thread for nothing. And I might
actually be interested...

Sinclair BASIC is a passion of mine.

D.